Though there is no glory in mentioning this, Todd Bentley, whose "Lakeland revival" was discussed by some on this blog in recent months, has recently announced, as those revival meetings have closed, that he and his wife have separated. I was pointed in a thoughtful direction about this matter by today's Desiring God blog (link below right). That blog pointed to Lee Grady's commentary on Todd Bentley's marital troubles in Charisma magazine.
I think it is proper to admit that our Council at TFH was never really comfortable with what we saw coming out of Lakeland. Too many things didn't add up. We decided after some discussion, however, not to make a statement about the matter, as some in and around the church seemed to be receiving blessing from the movement. No doubt, God can work in spite of a leader's weaknesses and error (I'll praise Him for that!), and good things may have happened to some folks in Lakeland, but I am glad now that we held off. Sometimes the fullness of a situation reveals itself. That seems to be what is happening now with Todd Bentley and Lakeland.
In the end, we are all--Lakeland supporters and Lakeland detractors alike--sent back to that one place where we know we can go with stuff like this: our knees. As Lee Grady encourages, let's pray for Todd Bentley, for strong Christian leaders, and for discernment among Christ's followers. All such prayers are needed at this time.
God Keeps Leading
11 years ago
15 comments:
I agree, Jeff. "There is no glory" in discovering that a marriage is falling apart, small children are growing up in a chaotic family, and hungry people around the world have been potentially harmed in their spiritual development. In several ways, I would have preferred finding out that I was mistaken in my assessment. Many needy (and potentially fragile) people have been affected by this and will have to wrestle with the consequences.
I pray for restoration of the Bentley family and other individuals burned by the fallout from this. I also pray that the church around the world grows in both discernment and zeal.
What a sad post.Are you using a mans bad situation to justify, and vindicate yourselves? Is this being done because if God was behind this move of the Spirit, and you and your council weren't comfortable with it, well what does that say?
Something big was going on there,wouldn't you agree? If it was the devil behind all this, why is he so prominent and God so quiet? Can you discern this for me?
Its sad that when a man is lying on the side of the road, beaten and bleeding, and we in our "righteous religious attitudes" cross over to the other side, rather than stop and be a "good samaritan" Are you yourselves already distancing yourselves from a hurting brother in Christ by maligning him? I have had marital difficulties and been separated before, does that make my ministry a fraud? Does that mean God can't use me? Or maybe you have already discerned this isn't a brother in Christ? Maybe since you are leading the way in discernment, you can discern one more thing for me...Why do we " the great lovers of God" always seem to shoot our wounded?
If I were satan, and there was a move of God going on, I would probably look for a weakness and exploit it as much as possible, especially if the move was being broadcast all over the world. Is it possible this marriage was attacked , since we don't battle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers of the air. And if this was a move of the devil, why would he end it, can you answer this as my discernment may not be up to par.
I am very saddened at the blog "Back to Discernment"..I am most concerned that we would read the sad, critical writings of J.Lee Grady..every time I seem to read his comments, he is in the throws of uncovering "scandals" in the Body of Christ..almost a Geraldo Rivera in the Christian Church...not much good to say..without the person he is attacking side of the story...and we call that discernment! Sounds more to me like judging,(possible jealousy), criticism, and a big dose of a lack of love in the Body! What is it about finding the weak spot in someone, their family,hear gossip/and or assumptions about someone, and we are so quick to say "Ahhaaa!" I knew he/she had a flaw! Now, I can relax, cause they have Problems...I can feel temporarily better about myself.....If we are saying there is no glory in discovering that a marriage is falling apart(assumption)...why bring it up to begin with...Shame on us and shame on this Blog!
I agree that the separation of Todd and his wife is, in itself, not a reason to attack his ministry. A lot of factors could have brought that on, one being an attack of the enemy, and that alone does not negate a person's ministry and kingdom work. I read the article that Jeff posted with this blog post. If you have not read it, stop and read it now. I am not concerned with some of the things that others are concerned with, such as Bentley wearing a shirt with a skeleton on it, or the fact that he has tattoos. That is ridiculous. (If tattoos keep God from using someone, then I am doomed.)
HOWEVER, I am concerned with the fact that Bentley aligned himself with, and even gave credit to, the “angel” that was a part of Branham’s ministry (a man who claimed to be Elijah reincarnated). I am also concerned with the apparent anti-biblical statements of the Bentley ministry that in my opinion basically commanded people not to use discernment when looking at what was happening in Lakeland. And I am especially concerned that the network’s hosts warned listeners that if they listened to criticism of Bentley they could lose their healings. That is completely against what I know of God and his word. We are called to listen and test things according to the spirit, not follow one person blindly, disregarding all counsel that may not agree.
1 John 4.1 - "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
I realize what this scripture goes on to say, and I do not want to argue about whether Bentley acknowledged that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. I'm sure he would agree with that. The point is that we are to use discernment and test spirits and prophets, not to believe without question as Bentley's ministry told people to.
I agree with Jeff. Let's use discernment. And listen to wise counsel. There is a lot to be learned from what happened in Lakeland. A minister or prophet really needs to have a covering from the start (people that will be committed to praying for them and their work), they need to have wise counsel themselves, and they need to protect their family relationships first. Perhaps Bentley did some of these things. I don't know everything about him and what he did or didn't do. All I can say is, I used my discernment and I felt that their was something amiss. I listened to people I trusted and they felt the same thing. I did not wish ill upon him or what he was doing, but prayed that God would triumph in it all. I believe that can still be the end result.
Romans 8.28 says, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)
Also, I thought John Piper addressed these issues in a an insightful way. Read this blog entry -
http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/1348_test_revival_with_doctrine/
As I said to a group of friends yesterday, "I would rather eat crow than to see that this family and ministry is suffering like this." I am deeply saddened, and have been moved to tears by these events. Grief is the most prominent emotion I am having over this situation.
The turmoil of this family, the division in churches, and the potential confusion many are left with are all reasons for sadness.
I see alot of valid points on both sides. You might say its got me thinking again. I truly respect the desire to protect the flock from anything that is not of God, and indeed discernment is very necessary. I also agree that anytime a fellow believer takes a fall (I have no doubt Todd Bentley is a fellow believer) that there needs to be much grace given, and restoration through prayer and biblical counsel. I see where He is getting counseling. Our job is to pray for him.
I dont believe any man could have "whipped up" this revival. I followed it from the beginning to the end, there are many things I do not know about it, but I will never say it wasn't God. The fruit is to tangible and numerous, and has been scrutinized to no end. I am happy to say most of it has stood.
I guess it has drawn a line in the sand in many ways, and shown that the church is very hungry for something more than "the norm" Jesus promised more than "the norm" to them that believe. The critics are going to say it wasn't God ordained, totally disregard the fruit, and point to the marriage separation as proof of this. The overzealous, hungry anything goes with God are going to overlook some serious issues, and argue their point. I think 1 Cor 13 should be our guiding system here, and that as long as all things are done in love, then regardless of the outcome, love will be the best outcome. Im not trying to sound cheesey here, but it is a very sensitive issue. Faith is being shaken, and thats a good time to stand together in love.
I agree with Aquila that now is a good time to stand together in love. The best response is to love. This can happen through prayer, through careful speech (not bashing, not gossiping), and through not attacking each other over where each person feels led to stand in this. Let us act in love and respond in love to this situation and to each other here.
"Faith is being shaken, and thats a good time to stand together in love." Very well said, Aquila. This is what I'm concerned about too.
Whether or not the ministry was "of God," people who have had a very personal experience with this ministry may be left with confusion and disillusionment. This is true every time a public leader has a public "fall."
Also, the world sees and judges. We are not subject to the judgment of the world, and cannot control that response. We know that we will be judged poorly even when we do what is right. So, at times like these, it is even more critical that we pray for restoration and healing of individuals and the body; and that the church's witness in the world is preserved.
There are a lot of things that could be said here. They won't be, for the sake of those who have written with much stronger personal feelings than mine. There are a lot of things that were not said in the original post, precisely because we do not know what all is occurring in Todd Bentley's household or ministry.
But I do need to say this: My original awareness of this situation did not come from either John Piper or Lee Grady. My original awareness came from an email sent early this week by GodTV, those who carried the Lakeland revival on their international network for many, many weeks on end. Their report was very much the same as mine: here is what has happened and here is our response (prayer). My only addition was a note about how this flowed through TFH, which I think was appropriate for a TFH blog. My only deletion--and it does warrant noting in a positive sense--was the more specific detail that the separation is apparently not over matters of sexual infidelity.
Please understand that any approach that does not include judgment (nas opposed to judging) and discernment, or that calls all bad news of a personal nature "gossip" is simply not biblical. The Bible, in both Testaments, frequently reported the sins of otherwise faithful men and women. Paul individually noted by name certain people who were out of line. If any portion of our reporting this situation in the context of the flow of discussion in this blog over the past few months was in any way self-serving, may God remove that stain. My only intention was to allow people to know what was happening and that it pained us to hear of it, as amy so compassionately noted. I am sorry that we cannot report only the good; to do so would not be the fullness of truth.
So, are you saying that Todd is out of line, or in sin? You may not have posted all that you wanted to, but by standing in agreement with what Grady wrote, you already made your statements. Why was the topic brought up in the first place again? Are we ready to let it go now and just agreee to disagree? We say we passionately care about Todd and his marriage and ministry, but I am not so sure I believe that to be true or none of this would even be being discussed right now. Or shall we pick another married couple to talk about instead? How easy it seems for people to focus on the negative in a persons life instead of the goodness and fruit that came/comes, (because as far as I know Todd is not through, he just went on to spread the fire elsewhere)out of his meetings. Can we say the same about our church? Is the spirit moving or are we just following a program? Are we experiencing the power of the Holy Spirit in healings and majesty? The gifts? I somehow feel sad because when you talk about another believer it hurts me too.
I think its apparent that I am one of Todd Bentleys strongest advocates. As such I must confess some things. Right now I am at a loss for what God is doing. But this I know. We are all in the same boat. No matter how strong we perceive another human being to be, they are just like us.. broken sinners in need of more of God.
When this revival broke out it was so exciting because God was finally showing up in the way I have always believed He would. In great power, and majesty, awesome miracles, one after another, and miracles that went beyond my imagination. Watching scar tissue being healed, metal rods being removed from backs, as those broken backs were healed, people in wheelchairs walking again, parkinsons disease being healed...this was my God being the God of my dreams. I had something I could point out to others and say see how awesome, and real my God is! After all Ive been talking about Him for years, but proving Him is another issue.
I put my hope in this move, and while I am perplexed, confused, and somewhat hurt, I am asking God, where are You in all this? This is what I believe He has answered.
He told me to consider my life. He reminded me of all the wonderful glorious ways He has worked in me, through me, around me in such awesome ways. And then He reminded me of my human weakness...reminding me of some of the most awful sins that have occurred during these times. He reminded me of David and Bathsheba, and a whole company of sinners. Our weakness does not dilute His greatness. Our frailty does not compromise His strength. Our sin does not pollute His righteousness. (you get the picture) And then He asked me to remember the good..the pure, and to "think on these things".
He advised me not to take offense, and not to go on the defense. It is what it is, and He is big enough to handle it. He then asked me "What would Jesus do?" I know that Jesus would love, He would probably weep for the sadness, but Jesus would trust in His Father.
Taking sides and pointing fingers is exactly what the devil wants at a time like this. To stir one up against another, remember the two edged sword our tongues (or keyboards can be) I pray we would let God work this out in His time, and that there would remain peace and harmony.
In closing He reminded me that I am not responsible for what happened in Lakeland, but I am responsible for my reaction to it, and I believe this He is watching very closely. So this is my reaction, Love one another, and trust God in all of this.
Aguila- thank you for responding in love. It is my opinion that the only righteous way that we can respond to anything is through love. I'm pretty sure that's what Jesus taught us to do.
On a related note, one of the main reasons that I don't post very often is that I don't want to come off as being argumentative. Personally, I struggle with voicing an opposing opinion without seeming argumentative, and that isn't responding in love. I realize that Jesus did respond in anger on several occasions, but knowing that He was ALWAYS in the right makes that very okay. Being human, I don't think that any of us can be completely right all the time. That said, it's easy for disagreements to happen. It doesn't even mean that one person is right and the other is wrong. It just means that we disagree. This side of heaven we will most likely never unite as one big happy family.
I don't know how far I want to go with this comment, but there is something here that has greatly disturbed me. It's is not the way that Lakeland is being treated. To be honest, whatever has happened there has happened there. The reason it was brought up here in the first place is that it was brought here originally by someone else. I think that most of us would have left it well enough alone if it hadn't been brought to us. But that's not my point. I am of the feeling that it is not acceptable to publicly (and anonymously) blast a group of believers with whom you have no relationship and therefore have no ground by which to truly communicate with them. It doesn't seem Biblical to me. It is also my opinion that if a person is involved in a body of believers and has relationship with them, that this is no way to respond and question their validity. If you have a problem with the way things are happening, then that should be between you and God or you should approach the leadership in the body. That seems to be the Biblical response. I can't understand why someone would respond in a way that undermines Christ's body.
It would be my preference that no one would respond to this post. I don't want to deal any further with it in this manner. I would not be opposed to bouncing ideas at Starbucks sometime, but I'm not into this thing much anymore. I don't like being blasted by someone that I don't know and therefore have no real way to respond to other than to make blanket statements about where I'm coming from. If you don't agree with me, fine. My only issue here is in the way that we treat each other. I feel that the original post was written with care and that there was no intention of instigating a riot. Again, if you don't agree with me, then don't, but please be careful about how you respond. Aquila reminding us about the tongue (or keyboard) is true wisdom. And that's all I have to say about that. (Since you can't hear the way I said that, it was Forrest Gump.)
While we have been--perhaps to our shame--blowing winds from ends of the spectrum over the past 48 hours, Todd Bentley's web site posted the following words from the Fresh Fire Ministries Board of Directors, dated August 15:
We wish to thank all of our friends and partners for the overwhelming flood of support and compassion we have received as a ministry on behalf of Todd and Shonnah Bentley. The many phone calls and emails of concern from people who genuinely love the Bentleys and Fresh Fire Ministries have been a great encouragement to all of us here during these past few days. In particular, the rallying of support and prayer for Todd and Shonnah by prominent leaders within the Body of Christ has been a beautiful indicator of the maturity and grace the Lord is bringing to his Bride.
We wish to acknowledge, however, that since our last statement from the Fresh Fire Board of Directors, we have discovered new information revealing that Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff. In light of this new information and in consultation with his leaders and advisors, Todd Bentley has agreed to step down from his position on the Board of Directors and to refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life.
You may want to go to the site to read the rest of the letter. It does not change the context of the above, just states what the ministry intends to do going forward.
In the end, the discernment and the ensuing action are where they have belonged all along: in the hands of those who know Todd Bentley best. From our distant view, we have (all of us) made inferences and conclusions and statements that were what we thought best. Lord, forgive us in the places where we were wrong and confirm in our spirits the places where we were right, so that we might know even better in the future the sound of Your voice.
Thank you Jeff, for your closing prayer.. it was perfect...and forgive me fellow bloggers for reacting at you with anger...it was very misdirected...
My feelings are very convoluted right now, and I am going to seek the Lord's comfort in all of this mess.
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