As we have been led recently to consider "administer the gift" as a directive for our fellowship (or at least its leaders), and we have received apparent confirmation that the gift we are to administer is God Himself, I have been considering over the past few days how important it is that we don't sell God short. This may be what I love about John Piper; he never cheats God. So I think the first and greatest goal is to paint the biggest, grandest, truest picture of God that we can paint. This is no fictional painting. Rather, it is us reading and praying and listening and learning that we might know more and more of God, with the singular purpose of revealing more and more of Him to one another in the fellowship. I am strongly convinced that the enlarging of God is one of the most important things we can offer to one another, and to our coming generation, if we are going to withstand the increasingly enlarged offerings of the world. Why would anyone, when the world has so much to offer, turn to an average God? So it must be our work, worthily done, to make God large in our eyes.
Such a work comes with important understandings and responsibilities:
We cannot fool God. He will never let Himself be built up for our proud gain. He will let Himself be praised and built up for the sake of His own glory. He will let Himself be praised and built up for our gain according to the dispensation of His lavish love to us and the outworking of His plans in our lives (which are worked for our good, you might recall). I might say that the extent of our humility before God is the extent to which He will be praised through us--both as individuals and as a corporate fellowship.
We must not wiggle out of or slip past the truth about God. The Bible is the great deliverer of truth about God: if we want to be doubtless about who God is and how He works, we must turn to the Scriptures. The Bible is the great arbiter of truth about God: if we want to wrestle over who God is and how He works, we can settle our arguments in Scripture. Every contemporary prophecy that professes to deliver more of God to us must be measured against the scriptural standard.
We must be dramatic for God's sake, not drama's sake. I'll admit it. I, for one, am tempted to "inflate" God with what I write and say. I just don't want people to miss it. But God needs no such help from me! It is right to be emotional about God, it is right to be excited about Him, it is right to tell of the fullness of Him, but it is not right to appeal to the melodramatic. Notice how normally secretive Elijah and Elisha and Jesus were in their outworking of great godly miracles. We want to parade all these cool things right out in front of the world's television audience--"make sure they see what our God can do." Jesus never acted this way, even when His miracles were public. He was very matter of fact. And the word about Him spread just fine anyway! So if we want to read boldly or act creatively, let us do it as we are called to do all things: for God's glory. Let's not fall into hyping things up so that people "come out for church" or "take notice of what's going on here" or (most of all) give us kudos because we "really have a handle on God." (If we think we have a handle on God, our God is not nearly as big as we want to know Him and show Him to be.)
We must fear God. No original thought here. The Bible speaks often of how we are to fear God and shun evil, as well as of those who are God-fearing. In fact, the Bible speaks of those who are "God-fearing" in the same way that we might call someone "full of character" or "someone you can trust." Those are phrases that contain high praise in our verbiage; in God's verbiage, high praise goes to those who fear God. And if we start there, by fearing God, all of the other components, including an accurate perspective of the great big God, will line up, don't you think?
QUESTIONS FOR COMMENTERS
Feel free to comment as you will, but you might respond to these questions:
- In what aspect has God recently shown Himself to you to be larger than you had before imagined?
- What keeps people (believers and unbelievers) from seeing a big God?
- What might you suggest to all of us as a way to enlarge our picture of God in an accurate, fearful, and loving-to-Him sort of expression?
God Keeps Leading
12 years ago
20 comments:
Some simple thoughts to answer the question about what keeps [unbelievers] from seeing a big God- I would say that they can't see past sin yet, in others, (Christians and non-Christians), and in themselves. To them, evil is bigger than God. I think some unbelievers' sole purpose in life is to just find a balance between evil (perhaps what they see as pain and suffering) and good (what they see as pleasure and satisfaction) for themselves. They can't see how Christians are any better off than them in the area of pleasure in life, so they see no need to pursue God as a source of pleasure, especially since those who don't know Him view Him as a taker of pleasure on many accounts (no drinking, no drugs, no premarital sex). Who finds joy in the law? We as believers need to be above the law, like Steven Seagal. :) Seriously, we need to live in the joy of Christ. I think John Piper had some good things to say about that, even if some did find him a bit yawny. Let us all pursue the joy of Christ with abandon! This is how the big God is seen - he is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him. Only then can we administer Him to others.
Suggestions on how to enlarge God to ourselves....
1-Begin reading things that are completely outside your tradition and comfort zone. And read them with the attitude that they just might contain truth.
2-Visit places that train and teach completely outsie your tradition and comfort zone. And listen with an attitude that they just might contain truth.
3-Be prepared to a willingness to have your view of God and the universe be changed.
My motto for the last few years has been that I still believe what I know to be true about Him but what I know to be true is much larger and my assessment of how much I know has gotten smaller.
Make sense?
As I watch the TV I must confess that this is making God seem much larger than before. To watch 50 people get out of wheelchairs, 9 people raised from the dead, Parkinsons disease being cured, deaf ears opened , and blind eyes opened. Metal being instantaneously removed from peoples spines and necks and their fused spines and necks being loosed,and the list goes on and on. (I am referring to the lakeland florida outpouring, and several other places that are seeing the same things because they have visited lakeland and taken this "administration of gifts" back with them, where ever they are from). Not to mention the thousands who have given their life to Christ, and rededications of people returning to Christ. To say these things are paraded, well I dont know why one would want to be quiet about such things.The people who wanted such things kept quiet in Jesus's day were the leaders of the church,not much has changed in 2000 years in this area. If we boldly proclaim the gospel, why cant we get excited about God? This is miraculous. I think what is even more exciting is the fact that these people healed on tv go get their medical records, and bring them back for verification of these healings, and some even bring their doctors, because their doctors want to know what has happened to their patients.I think if there was more "administering of these gifts" then maybe non believers would have a way to go.
What I did notice about the ministry of Jesus was He did not spend hours trying to talk someone into getting saved. That His main draw was what I see on the tv. What I see on the tv is hope, and that their is something bigger than myself, that nothing is impossible if you believe.
I think what stops people (believers) from seeing a bigger God is knowledge. They think they know who God is, How God works, and how God thinks. They wont come out and tell you this, but it could be the root of their skepticism and judgement. They think they know it all, and therefore they close their minds to anything else. The fruit of that is it stops the unbeliever from seeing a big God because God can now only be as big as our small minds.
I think people might see a bigger God when they start trusting Him. I am speaking of believers here. I think all want to see a bigger God but we dont trust Him to come through. And we are so afraid to look foolish, or stupid, which is what we think will happen if we step out in faith and God doesnt come through.I wonder about this guy on TV when he calls up all the people who are deaf, and he prays for them....in front of millions of people watching tv....if God doesnt come through how valid is his testimony going to be, how is he going to look. And yet God does come through and heals...and what do we do, we question, we criticize, and we judge. How are people (non believers) ever going to see a bigger God when we christians (believers) act like this?
Thank you all for getting us rolling with these thoughtful responses. It is great to have this exchange going.
Let me ask some questions regarding your comments. You can answer them directly, or leave them for others to ponder and maybe respond to.
For Kim, when you say that "to them, evil is bigger than God," do you mean (a) that the temptations of evil are more attractive and more compelling than God and thus they cannot imagine ever getting a handle on it, so why bother?, or (b) that evil is the current leader in the "great cosmic race," and that if someday God becomes a little stronger in this battle, maybe their allegiance will change? I guess this really questions the transcience of the average commitment. Are these people committed to this perspective, or could they be moved to change?
For catd, what degree of risk do you think resides in such adventuring? Could we find ourselves going down a "false path" in this attempt to use "new paths"? If so, what then? Or better yet, how might we decrease such risk as we adventure all the same?
For aquila, while it might be said by those who don't know God that these miracles point to His bigness, could it not also be said that a God who only makes "local appearances" is not big but small? After all, if God is omnipresent and omnipotent, why should we have to go somewhere geographical (or wait for a miracle worker to arrive in our region) before we see God? On a second thoughtline, you comment that "we question, we criticize, we judge." What do we do with the frequent admonitions of First Century church leaders (Peter and Paul especially) to be on the lookout for false teachers and to test the spirits? Are the criticisms and questions to which you refer different than this testing? How would we know?
Again, thanks for joining the conversation. Keep on writing.
Let's start with a scripture so we are "safe"."If you seek me, you will find me, when you search for me with all your heart". Do we trust God in that when we are honestly, deeply looking for him he will give us wisdom? Sometimes by being fearful of choosing the "wrong" we limit our growth. I think we also in a very self-deceptive way decide that our church tradition and those things we are comfortable with are the only "right" ways. There are thousands of years and millions of people who have gone before and have known God with a depth that I will never reach. How arrogant of me to decide their journey should be avoided because it doesn't match my own tradition's. No matter how much knowledge we have about God, no matter how many experiences we have had with God...it is minute compared to who he is. Many Christians become bored with their spiritual journey because they have exhausted their limited resources of knowing God more. I wish I could say it better. Let's put it this way: questions produce questions not answers. And, that's the way it should be. Afterall He is unknowable but discoverable???? I have recently had an AHA! moment. I thought I was quite well read, that I had "read it all" only to turn around to leave the library and discover I was only in the ante room of the library. It has been overwhelming and wonderful. I'm so glad God is so much more than I will ever know.
Local appearances...God is omnipresent. He is everywhere, on this we agree. Jesus made a statement that when He returned would He find faith anywhere on the earth. I dont think it has anything to do with Gods presence or His power. I think it has to do with our faith. And our faith I believe is in direct proportion to our desire for God. The promises of God are for all.."if you believe". A person who truly believes God provides for them is not going to try to manipulate someone for their own gain, or steal from someone to acquire, they are going to trust in Gods provision. In the same way I believe a person who believes in the verse "These signs shall follow those who believe" is true also. I once attended a church where the shepherd spent most of his time reminding the sheep how they should be.Righteous, with no sin. (This is very good teaching). What he never taught was what they could be. With his focus on the sheep being wretched sinners, the sheep never graduated to their full potential because the focus was always on their deficiency. Every time a hint of fruits of faith came up, the sheep were immediately reminded by the shepherd that sin was their condition and that it stopped the faith fruits. There was no balance in this church. The sad thing is people for the most part already know who they are. But who they could be partnered with Jesus;that is another thing altogether. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, but not yet seen. Obviously this shepherd had his own beliefs, and faith level, but it never got him where he wanted to go, his church never impacted his community like he hoped, never grew in numbers like he hoped, and eventually closed its doors. But how are people who dont know Gods full potential for them ever going to achieve it if the focus is on their deficiency. We are more than conquerors, We can do all things through Christ! Jesus came that we might have abundant life not just in heaven but here too... if we believe. Its not about a big or small God...its about a big or small faith in God.The shepherd in lakeland has more faith in God than in his own deficiency,and it shows. A good question to consider is if God is omnipotent and omnipresent, am I satisfied with His power and His presence in my life? If a person is....they are probably rapidly approaching apathy at a very lukewarm rate.
As for warnings about false teachers and prophets... they are out there and they seem to have certain habits. They teach false doctrine,they deny truth,even that Jesus is Lord, and take the focus off the truth and God and put it somewhere else promoting controversy. They slander celestial beings etc etc. I see only one thing here that could apply and that is controversy. While this man does nothing but lift up the name of Jesus, spends hours in worship of God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, preaches from the bible, and has all these miracles,signs, and wonders following, there is still controversy. And it seems to be coming from us christians. We look for reasons to doubt, we become professional skeptics searching the scriptures to deny what could be a move of God. This has all the fruits of a sovereign move of God, healing, deliverance,salvations, the Logos being preached, but somehow it doesnt fit in our box.. just as Jesus didnt fit in the pharisees box. So we look for the excuse,the weakness, and we try to explain it away until we crucify it just like they did to Jesus. The bible tells us to judge wisely. But some of us might think we are so wise that we know better than God himself...so we say "this isnt God, He would never do it that way, and we go on having a "form of God, but no power therein" as we deny the sovereign Lord. Read the blogs on this move, look at what the "christians" are writing. Seldom will you see so much malice,anger, and venom from such scholars.
To answer Pastor Jeff, who asked, "when you say that "to them, evil is bigger than God," do you mean (a) that the temptations of evil are more attractive and more compelling than God and thus they cannot imagine ever getting a handle on it, so why bother?, or (b) that evil is the current leader in the "great cosmic race," and that if someday God becomes a little stronger in this battle, maybe their allegiance will change? I guess this really questions the transcience of the average commitment. Are these people committed to this perspective, or could they be moved to change?"
I would say, just from my recent experience with some non-believing friends at school, that it is in part yes to question a, the temptations overpower their perceived ability to get a handle on it, but also that they sense a larger presence of pain (evil) in the world over good (pleasure), but don't sense more pleasure within the average Christian, so they say, "If this is what you need to do to feel better, then that's great for you. More power to you. But for me, I will continue to do what brings me pleasure" (party, sleep around, travel, experiment with this that and the other thing, etc.) What brings a human to the foot of the cross? I know it is only God Himself. So all, or at least part of, what I can do is find my joy in Christ and the redemption I receive from him, and live my life in full view of everyone. I am human. I fall. I want to be real at all times though. I never want to be white-washed or pretend to be something I'm not. It's those Christians that keep non-Christians away from God in the end. I don't want to be a hypocrite. I want to be transparent to God and to those around me.
I have been reading the Fresh Fire /Todd Bentley website for about three hours now. I have read a number of his sermons/teachings. There are several questionable statements there. One sums up the trouble, as I see it. It is found in the section called Statement of Faith. Article 12 states:
"FURTHER REVELATION
We recognize that God is continually restoring truth and light to His Church. Therefore, we place no limit on further revelation; however, each must be substantiated according to the Scriptures."
There is historical and ecumenical agreement that the Bible encompasses the whole of revelation for the Church. Although prophets may continue to receive words of prophecy, both corrective and encouraging, for his or her contemporaries, these are only and always in direct confirmation of previously revealed truth as found in the Bible.
"Further revelation", as Todd Bentley uses it, means new spiritual information about how God relates to the church and the world.
He has some bizarre "prophecies" in his teaching. One describes this:
"Not only does God have many angels on assignment, but there is an angelic realm in heaven devoted to finances ... His angels are on assignment to watch over your finances, to gather money, to gather investments, to bring favor, and to bring power in your life so that you can have favor and wealth ... In this regard, on three occasions over the past couple of years I’ve had a visitation from the Lord in which I’ve seen the angel of finance ... Here’s what happened. At first I saw heaven open, and as I ascended a ladder into the heavens I saw full vibrant wings and feathers! These feathers were white and as real as they would be in the natural realm; that’s how vivid it was. Then I noticed wings that moved and there was an arm under one wing and another arm under another wing! As the wings lifted I saw every precious gem you could think of under those wings; and then I saw the angel standing, having a body like a man with six wings. I knew it was the angel of finance." Todd Bentley, March 3, 2008
My commentary: Give me a break.
This man does not rightly handle the word of God. Furthermore, he only rarely mentions Jesus or the central message of the gospel. His sermons are distinctly hyped-up "prophecies" about amazing new revelations. I don't think we should have anything to do with this teaching.
Regarding the question of what shows us how big God is:
I find it amazing that God is big enough to maintain such paradoxes as the now and not yet Kingdom; and the predestination vs. free will of believers.
How BIG is that?
When we talk about predestination in a fatalistic way (i.e., that humans really have no real free will, but are automated to either accept or reject Christ), we reduce God to one who cannot deal with uncertainty. If we really have free will, the future is, in some regard, uncertain.
But unless human lives are mere programmed existences that cannot veer from their predestined paths, It is yet to be seen what human beings will choose.
Belief in a God who is merely running a program of destiny or fate, presents a theological crisis for me. What would God intend by inflicting the crisis of AIDS on the continent of Africa (which mostly afflicts millions of impoverished women and children)? In a purely fatalistic theology, God created sin and suffering. Is that the God I serve?
I realize that I am now in danger of being stoned (as would only be fair considering my last post), but I just don't think of God as finicky. I would like to think of God as able to handle whatever we throw out. This would allow for sinful and suffering realities without impugning God.
An image that might convey my thoughts is this:
Two master chef's are commissioned to create the ultimate meal.
Chef #1 writes a detailed shopping list and sends his obedient assistant to purchase the ingredients. These supplies must be just right. So, the chef ensures that the assistant will bring everything back in perfect order by calling ahead to the store.
The chef discusses the matter with the store's manager, who ensures the accuracy of the assistant's purchases. For the chef cannot properly assemble the perfect meal if he is not in control of all of the elements. No uncertainty can be sustained because the result cannot be guaranteed otherwise.
The ingredients arrive as requested, the chef masterfully crafts, and the resulting meal is glorious.
Chef #2 selects a trustworthy assistant, and gives these instructions: "Go and purchase a wide variety of ingredients, some humble, some exotic. Use what you know of me, and what I have taught you about good cooking. Do your best, I trust you."
The assistant goes shopping and returns with a wonderful array of ingredients. A few are surprising to the chef, unorthodox choices to be sure. Then the chef says, "Watch and learn."
The ultimately skilled, and infinitely creative master uses every last ingredient that the assistant purchased, and makes it all work together as a meal fit for a king.
While this is clearly an imperfect description of the opposing arguments, I am certainly drawn to a theology that envisions God as one who can improvise. Lest we think that a strict Reformationist view on the matter is the only sound thinking, it is only one of the church's understandings historically.
Is God big enough to handle the element of surprise?
Is God big enough to encompass the dichotomy of freewill and predestination? Is God both kinds of chef?
Doctrinal boxes are the ones I am eager to avoid. Do I make God in my own image, according to my preferences? Maybe, I'm only human, but I hope not. That is why I am searching out truth. That is why I am deeply concerned with knowing God.
"When John heard in prison what Christ was doing he sent his disciples to ask him "Are you the one to come, or should we expect someone else?" Jesus replied "Go back and report to John what you see; the blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear,the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. Blessed is the man or woman who does not fall away on account of me." I have witnessed these thing while watching Mr Bentley in florida over the last two months. As these meetings go out to 214 nations including Iran, Iraq, Syria and the rest of the middle east, I cant help but wonder how God feels about all this. To discredit all of this because we are not comfortable with the name of an angel seems a bit rash. I must confess I do not know all the angels God has created, and their purpose, so its hard for me to tell you on that information alone if its God or not. Historical and ecumenical agreement that the Bible encompasses the whole revelation for the church means essentially there is nothing left to be revealed, and that we know all meaning of the bible. Now last I checked angels were part of the bible, as were visions, and ladders from heaven. So are precious gems. But somehow this doesn't fit into the box, does it? So throw out the thousands of healings, toss aside the resurrections from the dead, invalidate the salvations, repudiate Jesus being preached,(I have watched this for over 45 days and to comment that he rarely mentions Jesus or the central message of the gospel is not the case from what I have seen.).As for the blind seeing, then you probably heard about the man who began to see out of his glass eye.... or the limbs that have grown out, parkinsons being instantly cured from someone watching on tv...they werent even at the meeting! But after they were healed they did go to the meeting with the dr's official hopeless diagnosis of this incurable disease. My hope is not to win this debate as much as we would not rush to judgement and possibly miss something that is of God even though it may clash with ones belief system.In closing remember that John was in prison. Sometimes the hardest prison to get out of is a closed mind.
Aquila,
How would our local church be different if we embraced the teachings from Lakeland? What difference does it make to us?
How could it be different? To be honest i'm not sure. I don't know, maybe your church is growing at a hundredfold rate every week. Maybe there are hundreds of people getting saved every week in your church. Maybe your community flocks to your church on a weekly basis to see the manifest presence of God because they need healing and all the dr. can do is tell them there is nothing they can do.If people stuck in their wheelchairs heard about your church, that something was going on and paralytics were walking again, that the blind were seeing,that captives were getting set free, and demons were being driven out with a word. That Jesus's name was being lifted so high the church was cited for excessive noise violations within the city limits! Maybe your youth group is dynamic and strong in faith as they go out to the community weekly and signs wonders and miracles follow them every where they go.(I find this very good for a young person to experience just how big their God is as there will be many things vying for their attention.)Maybe God TV wants to clear their schedule and broadcast your churches sunday services every week to several million homes. Why not fresno? Not too mention all the wonderful people you would meet as they flew from all over the world to be in your church, the church where God shows up and shows up STRONG.
When you say what difference does it make to us, it almost sounds like you don't think that could happen at your church, or maybe you don't want it too. Maybe its already happening at your church, like I said im not familiar with your church. My church has enough challenges.
Don't embrace the teaching, but be willing to check it out. When I first saw this outpouring, I questioned it,studied it, talked to people who had been there,and asked God if He was in it.I now firmly believe that this is God, and that He is rescuing His bride, and getting her excited about her future Spouse.
If this ever came to your church it would only come because it is welcome; And it might not seem now like it would make much of a difference, but this will change your church, your community, and your city, and state if you allow it too. You allow it, and God is the only one big enough to do it. I wish my church was like that, dont you?
Are you saying that God may or may not "show up" at any given meeting of believers? Did you say that God may show up either weak or strong?
What difference does it make? This is not a dismissive rhetorical question. I mean this:
If we believe that the Lakeland phenomenon is from God and for us, but that stuff isn't happening at our local church, what does that mean? Would we do something different. Is it up to us to make something happen?
A related question is:
How is our theology revealed or shaped by the answer to the above question? What do we believe about God, and our relationship to God, if we accept the notion that God "opens heaven" in specific places where more power is poured on the people in that place; where God shows up strong.
What does it mean if one cannot go to that special location? Does God say "tough luck folks, you'll have to settle for my weak and occasional presence with you" and then leave us alone?
I am wondering if maybe we don't need to introduce some tools here. And by that I mean some standards by which to assess whether a local church should want to jump into a national movement, say, or attach themselves to a hotspot. Let's see if we can do this without Lakeland in mind for the time being.
First, if we do not know a leader personally (no matter what their apparent gifting is), I would suggest that there are only a couple of ways to evaluate them from afar. One would be their actions and the lasting impact of these actions. The other would be their words. We cannot dismiss one's actions because of their words, or their words because of their actions--unless these things are inconsistent. That is, if one's actions look like Jesus, but their words about Him are twisted (we might say this is often true of Mormons), we would not stand with them. Also, if their words sound like Jesus, but their actions show something different (like the infamous "hypocrites" that appear around every atheist's corner), we would also not stand with them. This means we must evaluate both the words and the actions of the leader, as best we can from a distance.
Now, returning for a bit to Lakeland, I would say that Amy is right to be concerned about the words of Todd Bentley (or any others on stage there), if they do not clearly and scripturally point to Jesus.
Here's why: Scripture is clear that miracles did draw people to Jesus' ministry, but He then gave them His words, and His words (not His miracles) were the words of eternal life. We know from Pharaoh's court that great miracles can be mimicked by the enemy, but in that the enemy is a liar, his words that follow cannot give life.
I dare not attach the label of Satan's agent to anyone who seems as desirous of ministering as the folks in Lakeland, but I do conclude with this: that in my mind, it makes no sense to assume that "God is there but not here" and much sense for any local fellowship who desires miracles to pray for them to arise from the people rooted within that fellowship rather than to go searching far and wide every time someone proposes that the grass is greener over there. How many local fellowships have been gutted by an exodus of people who are sure the "real stuff" is happening somewhere else?
Great question. As we have already stated God is omnipresent. So the question of why He moves more in one place than another? Jeff makes a good point that we don't follow mormon teaching. Mormon teaching is contrary to the gospel, and as far as we know there has never been a healing revival from the mormon church. Mormons don't believe in healing revivals from Jesus. It is contrary to their belief and their focus. Matt 23:37 shows that while God desires one thing for us, we can stop it from coming to pass. God doesn't love those people any more in Lakeland than he does the mormons in your town, I think God loved the pharisees as much as He loved the disciples, so why being in the same room with Jesus did the pharisees miss it? Do you realize what was available to them! And yet standing face to face with Jesus, because He wasnt doing things their way, Because Jesus wasnt falling in line with their thinking, they threw the whole thing out, and crucified God's son. Do you see man's heart...professing to be God's leaders they kill God! And all the while they think they are righteous. Their belief and focus was somewhere else too. This dialogue began because of the question of a big God. In Lakeland they are experiencing a BIG GOD! We can get all caught up in the terminology, the theology, and try to get a handle on it, but thats not going to change the fact that there is an awesome, amazing, thing happening in Lakeland, that is going around the world now. The fruit of it is the same fruit that Jesus said would follow those who "believe" Mormons dont believe, pharisees never did,and yet they were the most schooled and educated ones? No wonder they threw out the baby with the bathwater. In closing people all over the world are getting blessed by this. If someone cant go to Lakeland they can watch it on tv,or the internet. People are writing in from all over the world saying that they have been blessed,healed, and touched just watching it on the airwaves. The other thing is it appears transferable. Pastors and lay people alike are going to lakeland, and getting prayed for and bringing this annointing back with them to their local church. Our pastors wife will be back tomorrow from Lakeland, and He is going after her . Dont worry, God is fair, and the hungry heart He will not deprive. Maybe your church could send Jeff to Lakeland, or you could go yourself and see what im talking about. Wouldnt that be exciting! And then you come back with it, and deaf people hear, blind people see,the wheelchair bound walk, etc etc etc. Forget about all those other people around the world. God will take care of them, where are you at?
Jeff..Im sure you have a great church, My intention is not controversy, these are just my opinions. My hope and prayer is God's best for all. We do not assume God is there but not here. God is in Lakeland and He is in California. I would be curious to hear your opinions on Lakeland, and what you perceive to be happening there, and also compare it to what God is doing in california.
In response to Amy's comment, the remark about Todd Bentley sounded like a judgement, and the word says that we need to be careful not to come against Gods anointed, and he is an anointed man of God, you may not agree with everything he says or the experiences he is having, but to say have nothing to do with him is quite harsh and judgemental. I for one believe in his ministry, and if you ask the Lord to show you the truth about his teaching and the move of the Holy Spirit their in Lakeland, he will show you...he will seperate the wheat from the chaff.
You are absolutely right, anonymous. I did make a judgement. We all make judgements every day. We are supposed to.
Slander is another subject. I am not interested in slandering any individual, nor have I slandered Mr. Bentley. I have only written about his teaching, not his personal character, human worth, or internal motives.
When I survey his teaching, however, I have grave concerns. For instance, I simply cannot understand why any Christian would laugh, as his audience does, at the following (a video of Mr. Bentley preaching) let alone decide that this man offers sound teaching. It is abnormal for any decent person to laugh at the images being described (that of an older woman being kicked in the face; a disabled woman's legs violently slammed up and down on stage; a man being chased around and eventually slugged in the name of healing), but his apparently Christian audience finds it hilarious. The video is Mr. Bentley's own report of these events and more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exb53K2v4pk
If this man represents what it means to faithfully follow Jesus, count me out! I mean that.
Truthfully, I would rather not discuss this for a while. I have stated my case.
Im just glad Todd didn't spit, make clay and rub it in some poor blind persons eyes. You aren't the first person to say count me out because of the method or the offense. They have been saying that for 2000 years now.And how dare that audience laugh at such atrocities. No wonder the "count me outers" said "He casts out the devil by the power of the devil" This can't be God, God would never do this, or back anyone who does. As for punching,slapping and kicking, you might want to read up on Smith Wigglesworth, and Smith was tattoo free! Lets get God back in that box before things get out of control here.
That being said I do respect your choice to end this discussion. Lets move on to bigger and better things.
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